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Thai/Farang relationships.

PeeMarc

Entry posted by PeeMarc ·

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Sorry this is so long :)

What I write here is not a complaint at all, nor do I have any axe to grind. But I want to share some things I have learnt along the way and hope that perhaps a few people may benefit in some way. Perhaps to some, I may be stating the obvious, and to others, small revelations. There are many books written about Thai relationships and myriad about Thai customs. I have read so many of them. But as usual, real life often differs greatly from what books advise us. This is just from my own experiences.

A very good Thai friend of mine asked me today: ?Why do so many Thai girls (apart from the obvious bar girls and hookers) want to have relationships with western guys, but they don?t have much understanding of (or often much interest in) western cultures or the many differences with Thai culture?? I said I didn?t have a good answer for that, but it does seem to be a fair observation.

Any westerner who has lived in Thailand for a while will surely agree that it can be extremely difficult to live here sometimes (no, that?s not a complaint either). We face many obstacles every day, and many misunderstandings in day-to-day life. To live here requires many different efforts to learn about the 1000s of details about Thai culture, interactions, families, relationships, business and politics and so on. Sure, learning the language can open windows to this massively complex and confounding culture, but we still have to make many efforts every single day just to get along. And while we are doing this, we somehow have to try not to lose our own self; our beliefs, ethos and cultures, as we immerse ourselves into ?The Thai Way? we are so often reminded about. This is just the way it is.

In the west, as it is in any culture, relationships are very complex things. To have a good one, of course, takes lots of love, care, friendship, commitment and effort. To have an excellent and enduring relationship requires so much more than that. But, to have a Thai/Farang relationship that lasts and grows is something completely extraordinary. I salute those long-term couples that are together and still happy today. But, to be honest, I haven?t witnessed many in my 15+ years in Asia. In the west, I think the success rate is less that one in three. In Thailand, Thai/Farang success rates must be lower by my view.

Why?

I wish i had all the answers, I really do. But, like most westerners here I?m still learning something new every day and most days I feel like a complete novice (sometimes even an idiot!).

Seems to me that one of the biggest problems is communication ? from both sides. And if there is one thing that will cut even a great relationship to bloody pieces and kill it, it?s usually because of lack of communication and understanding of each other over critical and important issues.

My Thai teacher once told me that when Thais are listening to each other, they mainly listen to the vowel sounds, while Thai consonants are usually soft. But English speakers place much more emphasis on consonant sounds, not just the vowel sounds. So, when a Thai is listing to an English speaker (or the other way around) they are often listening to for the wrong sounds the other is making. And so it seems to be in many aspects of a Thai/Farang relationship. Both people might be doing their best to communicate (verbally and non-verbally), but both are often looking for different ?signals?, sounds, words and actions to fully understand what the other is trying to say.

I have just watched a great relationship almost fall apart for this very reason. For so long, they were an amazing couple, they laughed a lot, had loads of fun all the time and talked constantly about anything and everything. They shared their ideas, feelings and thoughts about everything, and would often finish each other?s sentences. They became best friends and we were inseparable almost every day. They were very happy with each other, admired each other and challenged each other. Over time, they fell in love, and continued to grow closer and closer. Everyone who met them commented about how wonderful and ?right? for each other they seemed.

But one day, for some reason, they started misunderstanding each other. Simple, small things seemed to easily became bigger and bigger until they became out of control. They both became more sensitive; feeling hurt and misunderstood. They both started resenting each other and anger was quick to rise. Like walking on eggshells, they both tried hard to avoid hurting the other, so talking became more difficult as time went by. Getting to the heart of the problems seemed almost impossible. They loved each other so much, but they both felt helpless to know what to do and how to move forward.

And to make matters worse, as they both tried more and more desperately to get the other to understand what they were trying to say, they stopped listening to the other and just kept talking more. They had a classic, communication melt-down.

Why?

I don?t think its ever right to throw blame about who did what, said what, or whatever. I can see clearly that each was mostly listening to the wrong things in the other and not hearing or seeing what was being told or shown. From a Westerners point of view, it appears Thais just don?t like to (or dont feel comfortable to) communicate about, or confront, issues. And the more sensitive the subject, the more difficult it seems to openly discuss it.

Communication, from a Thai, seems to be often done with small ?hints? and ?signs? along the way. They can be slipped into a normal conversation like a ship through fog. For a westerner, understanding this subtle and often very gentle hinting can be like trying to crack a WWII code ? almost impossible and just as frustrating. Often, they are so subtle they just pass right by without even being noticed. But, one thing IS for sure - as far as the Thai is concerned, they have done all they can to communicate the issues. It?s then their partner's problem and something he needs to address and sort out ? if he really cares.

And herein can be the start of a pending disaster; the small, unseen spark that can start a wild fire that destroys everything so quickly, while you stand by helplessly.

And because, from the Thai point of view, they have done the ?right thing? and communicated a problem (their way), then of course it is up to you to pick up on it and do something about it. If you don?t, it will fester and get worse, as most unresolved issues do. She will start to think you don?t care or really love her. But you wont know this before it?s too late. Then, suddenly, as if from no-where, there will be a storm. It will happen over something seemingly quite trivial. But it will hit and you wont know why. You wont know why she seems to be so difficult or ?jai rorn? or moody so suddenly.

It?s often said that when a girl dumps a guy, he is usually the last to know anything about anything. He may even realize (if at all) what his mistakes were, or what her problems were, months or even years after they broke up. Guys are pretty dumb like that, and often need to be hit over the head with a shovel to ?get? what a girl is telling them.

As more and more Thai women have relationships with western guys in the future, and different cultures learn more about each other?s differences, then perhaps Thai women will learn try to be more open and more ?obvious? with their partners. And, of course western guys will hopefully learn more about ?listening? and ?watching? more closely.

If you are a Thai girl reading this, and you think your guy is not understanding you or ?getting it?, its probably not because he is stupid or doesn?t care or love you. He is just not used to listening the way you want him to liisten to you? like a Thai would. And worse still, please don?t get angry or frustrated with him. This will just make it worse and he will probably sulk or get angry back. If he doesn?t seem to understand what you?ve been trying so hard (from your point of view) to tell him, you would be best to try another way to explain what you mean. Be very patient. Try to use simple, straight language (not hints), even though this may seem so unnatural for you at first. With practice, it will become easier. He will respect you and appreciate you for making the effort to help him understand.

If you are a Western guy reading this, and you?re having lots of trouble understanding what the hell all the arguments are about, or what your girlfriend is unhappy about, you could be just ?deaf? to what was being ?said? to you all along, or perhaps even months before. You just didn?t hear it. Don?t jump to conclusions too quickly. You will, more often than not, be wrong. Keep your mouth shut and try to listen more. Take time, be patient and very gentle. She will appreciate this very much. Don?t ever criticize her, or even come close to it. She will probably shut down or get hurt or even angry. She doesn?t mean to be this way and she really doesn?t want to hurt you at all. Try not to confront issues head on or put pressure on her by asking straight questions and demanding an answer right now. She will probably not tell you straight, even though she wants to. She will probably tell you when you least expect it, when (of course) your're not listening for it.

I think its fair to say that both Thai and Westerners need to learn as much as they can about their partners culture. Any relationship will be doomed eventually if BOTH don?t make this effort. But the most important thing is the basic communication that happens every day. Thai girls should try to be more straight and obvious about their feelings and/or problems. And western guys should try to develop skills to ?hear? those often very subtle and gentle hints being given along the way.

Chatting with an American buddy on the phone just now, who has been married to his Thai wife for 18 years and has 2 kids, I asked him his secret. He said: ?Well? for us it?s really easy. You see, if she?s wrong or made a mistake, it?s always my fault. And, if I?ve done something wrong, then it?s my fault too. Even if someone else has done it, that?s still my fault. Of course my wife is never to blame for anything. She is so perfect.?

I wish you all luck and much happiness. :)

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PeeMarc

Sorry this is so long :)

What I write here is not a complaint at all, nor do I have any axe to grind. But I want to share some things I have learnt along the way and hope that perhaps a few people may benefit in some way. Perhaps to some, I may be stating the obvious, and to others, small revelations. There are many books written about Thai relationships and myriad about Thai customs. I have read so many of them. But as usual, real life often differs greatly from what books advise us. This is just from my own experiences.

A very good Thai friend of mine asked me today: ?Why do so many Thai girls (apart from the obvious bar girls and hookers) want to have relationships with western guys, but they don?t have much understanding of (or often much interest in) western cultures or the many differences with Thai culture?? I said I didn?t have a good answer for that, but it does seem to be a fair observation.

Any westerner who has lived in Thailand for a while will surely agree that it can be extremely difficult to live here sometimes (no, that?s not a complaint either). We face many obstacles every day, and many misunderstandings in day-to-day life. To live here requires many different efforts to learn about the 1000s of details about Thai culture, interactions, families, relationships, business and politics and so on. Sure, learning the language can open windows to this massively complex and confounding culture, but we still have to make many efforts every single day just to get along. And while we are doing this, we somehow have to try not to lose our own self; our beliefs, ethos and cultures, as we immerse ourselves into ?The Thai Way? we are so often reminded about. This is just the way it is.

In the west, as it is in any culture, relationships are very complex things. To have a good one, of course, takes lots of love, care, friendship, commitment and effort. To have an excellent and enduring relationship requires so much more than that. But, to have a Thai/Farang relationship that lasts and grows is something completely extraordinary. I salute those long-term couples that are together and still happy today. But, to be honest, I haven?t witnessed many in my 15+ years in Asia. In the west, I think the success rate is less that one in three. In Thailand, Thai/Farang success rates must be lower by my view.

Why?

I wish i had all the answers, I really do. But, like most westerners here I?m still learning something new every day and most days I feel like a complete novice (sometimes even an idiot!).

Seems to me that one of the biggest problems is communication ? from both sides. And if there is one thing that will cut even a great relationship to bloody pieces and kill it, it?s usually because of lack of communication and understanding of each other over critical and important issues.

My Thai teacher once told me that when Thais are listening to each other, they mainly listen to the vowel sounds, while Thai consonants are usually soft. But English speakers place much more emphasis on consonant sounds, not just the vowel sounds. So, when a Thai is listing to an English speaker (or the other way around) they are often listening to for the wrong sounds the other is making. And so it seems to be in many aspects of a Thai/Farang relationship. Both people might be doing their best to communicate (verbally and non-verbally), but both are often looking for different ?signals?, sounds, words and actions to fully understand what the other is trying to say.

I have just watched a great relationship almost fall apart for this very reason. For so long, they were an amazing couple, they laughed a lot, had loads of fun all the time and talked constantly about anything and everything. They shared their ideas, feelings and thoughts about everything, and would often finish each other?s sentences. They became best friends and we were inseparable almost every day. They were very happy with each other, admired each other and challenged each other. Over time, they fell in love, and continued to grow closer and closer. Everyone who met them commented about how wonderful and ?right? for each other they seemed.

But one day, for some reason, they started misunderstanding each other. Simple, small things seemed to easily became bigger and bigger until they became out of control. They both became more sensitive; feeling hurt and misunderstood. They both started resenting each other and anger was quick to rise. Like walking on eggshells, they both tried hard to avoid hurting the other, so talking became more difficult as time went by. Getting to the heart of the problems seemed almost impossible. They loved each other so much, but they both felt helpless to know what to do and how to move forward.

And to make matters worse, as they both tried more and more desperately to get the other to understand what they were trying to say, they stopped listening to the other and just kept talking more. They had a classic, communication melt-down.

Why?

I don?t think its ever right to throw blame about who did what, said what, or whatever. I can see clearly that each was mostly listening to the wrong things in the other and not hearing or seeing what was being told or shown. From a Westerners point of view, it appears Thais just don?t like to (or dont feel comfortable to) communicate about, or confront, issues. And the more sensitive the subject, the more difficult it seems to openly discuss it.

Communication, from a Thai, seems to be often done with small ?hints? and ?signs? along the way. They can be slipped into a normal conversation like a ship through fog. For a westerner, understanding this subtle and often very gentle hinting can be like trying to crack a WWII code ? almost impossible and just as frustrating. Often, they are so subtle they just pass right by without even being noticed. But, one thing IS for sure - as far as the Thai is concerned, they have done all they can to communicate the issues. It?s then their partner's problem and something he needs to address and sort out ? if he really cares.

And herein can be the start of a pending disaster; the small, unseen spark that can start a wild fire that destroys everything so quickly, while you stand by helplessly.

And because, from the Thai point of view, they have done the ?right thing? and communicated a problem (their way), then of course it is up to you to pick up on it and do something about it. If you don?t, it will fester and get worse, as most unresolved issues do. She will start to think you don?t care or really love her. But you wont know this before it?s too late. Then, suddenly, as if from no-where, there will be a storm. It will happen over something seemingly quite trivial. But it will hit and you wont know why. You wont know why she seems to be so difficult or ?jai rorn? or moody so suddenly.

It?s often said that when a girl dumps a guy, he is usually the last to know anything about anything. He may even realize (if at all) what his mistakes were, or what her problems were, months or even years after they broke up. Guys are pretty dumb like that, and often need to be hit over the head with a shovel to ?get? what a girl is telling them.

As more and more Thai women have relationships with western guys in the future, and different cultures learn more about each other?s differences, then perhaps Thai women will learn try to be more open and more ?obvious? with their partners. And, of course western guys will hopefully learn more about ?listening? and ?watching? more closely.

If you are a Thai girl reading this, and you think your guy is not understanding you or ?getting it?, its probably not because he is stupid or doesn?t care or love you. He is just not used to listening the way you want him to liisten to you? like a Thai would. And worse still, please don?t get angry or frustrated with him. This will just make it worse and he will probably sulk or get angry back. If he doesn?t seem to understand what you?ve been trying so hard (from your point of view) to tell him, you would be best to try another way to explain what you mean. Be very patient. Try to use simple, straight language (not hints), even though this may seem so unnatural for you at first. With practice, it will become easier. He will respect you and appreciate you for making the effort to help him understand.

If you are a Western guy reading this, and you?re having lots of trouble understanding what the hell all the arguments are about, or what your girlfriend is unhappy about, you could be just ?deaf? to what was being ?said? to you all along, or perhaps even months before. You just didn?t hear it. Don?t jump to conclusions too quickly. You will, more often than not, be wrong. Keep your mouth shut and try to listen more. Take time, be patient and very gentle. She will appreciate this very much. Don?t ever criticize her, or even come close to it. She will probably shut down or get hurt or even angry. She doesn?t mean to be this way and she really doesn?t want to hurt you at all. Try not to confront issues head on or put pressure on her by asking straight questions and demanding an answer right now. She will probably not tell you straight, even though she wants to. She will probably tell you when you least expect it, when (of course) your're not listening for it.

I think its fair to say that both Thai and Westerners need to learn as much as they can about their partners culture. Any relationship will be doomed eventually if BOTH don?t make this effort. But the most important thing is the basic communication that happens every day. Thai girls should try to be more straight and obvious about their feelings and/or problems. And western guys should try to develop skills to ?hear? those often very subtle and gentle hints being given along the way.

Chatting with an American buddy on the phone just now, who has been married to his Thai wife for 18 years and has 2 kids, I asked him his secret. He said: ?Well? for us it?s really easy. You see, if she?s wrong or made a mistake, it?s always my fault. And, if I?ve done something wrong, then it?s my fault too. Even if someone else has done it, that?s still my fault. Of course my wife is never to blame for anything. She is so perfect.?

I wish you all luck and much happiness. :)

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paulgh3rd

marc... not a bad journal at all however I think you place to much simplicity on cultural differences for relationship failure instead of just the male/female dynamic. The example of your friends who were an incredible couple for some time shows communication was not an issue. I'm sure through that time they had arugments and fights and worked through them. My self having been married and experienced the same thing where we were 'the couple' and made others sick because of our cuteness and friendship that was so strong and communication. It did however eventually start to break down and other factors took hold as well.

The problem is often men and women think and communicate differently. As you noted women use 'hints' and are subtle in their approach leaving men hearing hearing things such as 'well if you don't know (or didn't know situation depending) then you should've...". It's a main stay of comedians the world over and a vast amount of books have been writing on it. The most famous of which is of course "men are mars women are from venus" series. I think most people try to blame a cultural difference as an easy escape for their own failure in the relationship which takes 2 people to make work and 2 to make fail as well. Granted I have not seen many 15yr+ mixed marriages at my age, however most of the white/asian marriages out last most of the white/white and asian/asian relationships. Just my point of view

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Nave

Good one bro..in the end..no matter who you are or where you are from..it's all about choosing to stay no matter what..and to learn about one another and to surrender something in order to gain a better thing..of course..not only one person will do that..it takes two to tango so both gotta learn to sacrifice. You don't need to be from different countries but its even difficult enough tho you are siblings.

I was once taught..love isn't just a feeling..but it's a choice..to stay..to seek for his/her good..to seek for your partner's need and fulfill it..to keep record of his/her good deeds..to forgive , no matter what will cost you.

Sounds so untrue? Thats why people put 'unconditional love' right there..and walk on a seperate way.

Maybe wrong.. just my idea tho

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JBJE

Very nice, Marc.

A few comments:

I am getting used to surrendering. :) It's very different from what I have been accustomed to doing in past relationships, but I think the friend you last quoted is very wise: "... it's always my fault." Actually, I no longer even think of it in terms of surrendering and assignment of fault. I just think of it as acceptance and peace.

We created our own language. It sounds something like this: "nyo nya nyooooah .... oot oot oot ....ei ei ei (well that is Thai)... oooh ooh oooooh." I guess it is a way of communicating feeling without a specific message. Hmmm, there's a fair representation of vowels there .... Whatever works... :P

I think you are being two nice to Western men. Well, speaking for myself, I am indeed STUPID about picking up the subtle clues. But at least I recognize the situation and I am trying to rectify it the best I can.

I am not doing my part to bridge the cultural/language gap. She has learned English (hell, she even corrects MY English! 555). She understands a lot of the Western culture that is presented commercially on the web and elsewhere. I have done none of the above when it comes to Thai and Thailand. Part of it is lack of time, and the rest is the reticence of not knowing if I am doing it RIGHT. I recognize I have a huge challenge here, and I hope I am up to the task.

I try to surprise her with good "stuff". So, in other words, maybe I didn't hear the clues and pick up the message, but as long as I am trying and delivering even on things she doesn't expect from me (or rather, on things I don't know she is expecting from me - 555), perhaps she will appreciate the effort.

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Nave

A very cool friend of mine said...

"being from different countries is a story..and being a man and a woman is just another story..

we, women sometimes become something with no reason."

well..said bCool who is so busy with her work..or homework..or whatever but still wants to give you comment and commanded me to do it for her thru MSN !!

-----------------------

so she's saying that we can be silly when we wanna be? where the heck is the button cuz im so sure that my ex or even my future bf would like to find so that he can turn it off...

ha ha ha ( this one is from me; Nave )

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PeeMarc

biachung - agree totally.... huge but very worthwhile learning curve (if hopefully both can stay together on it...lol)

Nave - you are right... takes two to tango...and thats a daily choice... to sacrifice some...in order to gain much much more in the long run.

JBJE - hey sorry ive been so quite lately...and we didnt catch up when you were here. thanks for your comments and thoughts. Nice. Hope you and your loved one are doing well mate :)

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PeeMarc

thanks again Nave... and ... er.... thanks bCool.. er... i think...

"we women sometimes become somethiing with no reason".... i like that :) but wonder if sounds better iin Thai.

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dan_bkk

Look like I have a benefit of being a Western educated Thai guy who have had Western and Thai girlfriend, Relationship with Thai ladies are more difficult because they are very sensitive, however, otherwise, everything else are the same. Communication is really the key. I will never leave my gf to not understand and have miscommunication or incompletetion with me at anytime. If She give me a subtle hints, and I don't understand I ask and let her explain herself clearly. Well, if we can not solve the problems or the situations, then our relationships are over. I have never felt bitter toward any of my ex-gf.

Concerning Thai ladies' relationships with farangs, Two reasons that I have heard of a lot recently are very interesting ideas in which are:

(1) there are less and less quality Thai guys out there (many more Thai guys are gays) and that Thailand has more female population than male population.

(2) Generally speaking many Thai ladies have a fantasy that someday a guy of her dream (call it prince in shinning armor or perfect guy) would come and rescue her and live everly happy after. (I got this from many Thai soap opera on TV)

I don't know how popular these "Two reasons" are with majority of ladies here.

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paulgh3rd

I'm not sure about dan_bkk 2 reasons but completely agree with his statements since I have dated women from different ethnic, cultural and religious backgrounds and being with them seen couples of their groups and no matter what communication is key and as men..... we just don't get 'subtle' very well and women are taught it almost as an art form it seems. Maybe it's genetic and we're missing the dna on it. lol

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zeusbheld

regarding dan_bkk's comment..... i have not heard that expressed widely, except amongst farrang men. where i've heard it from a Thai, it was Thai women trying to get in bed with farrang men. it might be true in some cases but i think it is misleading at best to present it as if it has any sort of statistical relevance.

regarding the journal itself: GF and i have a simple method---if something is wrong, blame the cat. works 100 percent of the time, unless the cat escapes (he hasn't so far).

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dan_bkk

Pandorea- You raise a very good point. Do we, quality Thai guys, have more to choose from? It is very tempting for me to just put on "Single and looking" for 1 week just for the fun of it and see what happen:)

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petey

You have received a lot of good comments on this topic and I will keep mine short.

I think it is difficult for a western man to understand any Asian woman. It requires a large amount of effort. A chinese woman or japanese woman is just as difficult to understand as a Thai woman. It is the cultural differences that make the communication that much harder.

And I absolutely agree with Nave in that love is a choice. Those are the exact words I told a friend who was going through a divorce after not treating their spouse well. Love is a gift and not something that can be taken for granted. What is given as a gift can be taken away.

There are no easy relationships, they all take work. Mix cultures and they require extra work.

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friendlyCat

good journal. I would add that in USA, the average person would not have much cultural sensitivity to a country that they have never visited...

>>>>>>>>>>>regarding the journal itself: GF and i have a simple method---if something is wrong, blame the cat. works 100 percent of the time, unless the cat escapes (he hasn't so far).

Hey, if more people start blaming the cat, I may have to change my username here. :-((

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Kitt3n.VU

this is a really great journal, If I?ve learned anything in the last year or two about being in a serious relationship is it takes love and respect, a desired commitment amongst two people who are willing to share and be open with each other.for me i think communication is the key... all the relationship take work one way or another....

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Vento

Thanks Mark for the journal. As you say there is nothing innovative in it, but a rather comprehensive and sensitive analysis.

?If there is one thing that will cut even a great relationship to bloody pieces and kill it, it?s usually because of lack of communication and understanding?

Not that the rest of your dissertation is less valid, but i think that this is a key point. A key and painful one, as far as I am (and was) concerned. Terribly true, and terribly frequent in case of ?western?/ Siamese relationships. Yet is not enough. I am a strong (some say ?fool?) believer in the potentials the Love has in keeping people together. Not easily, not for free. High costs sometimes, but with a possible success. And i am saying this although, after many years, me and my wife we had to give up. Thanks God we maintain a very close and positive relatioship, and also for this I don?t consider the end of our marriage a ?failure?

At the end of the day, thus i think it is a more difficult kind of union than between people with the same or more similar backgrounds. Much more difficult, close to impossible i tend to say. But so many things to gain... a challenge worth trying.

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Nave

means that you probably accidently pushed that 'silly mode ; crying, whining, yelling, throwing tantrum with no reason'

find it and turn it off...and most men find that you gotta please her or do her whatever she wants then she'll stop..and what about your needs ?? forget it and you dont have that button either

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PJack

men are from mars and women are from venus but Thai women are from another universe, where other mythological creatures have come including the Sirens in Homers Odyssey, mermaids, playboy playmates etc.

if 50% of all marriages in most western countries fail, your estimate of 33% is not that much worse and perhaps not as startling given cultural differences, etc.

from the western point of view, the linear approach to things (I like the Descartes method but it is really the modern approach to science, and problems in general)

1. Accept as true only what is indubitable. (Feelings are not facts)

2. Divide every question into manageable parts. (Discussion is not always negotiation but often just exploration)

3. Begin with the simplest issues and ascend to the more complex.

4. Review frequently enough to retain the whole argument at once. (Remember the goal: to forgive each others faults but also to try to minimize those so as not to disturb your partner)

and in general, men seem to use such an approach more often than women. in Thailand this sort of approach is foreign, to be sure. to apply it or something like it -- management, communication, negotiation, agreement, commitment to a relationship is is a very foreigh thing to Thais in general, and perhaps very foreign and cold and unloving to Thai women.

from the Thai perspective, most Thais do not feel as empowered to change their lives and relationships. they are born into things and do not view their lives or relationships as things that they control, drive, change, manage, and therefore they do not view things as their responsibility or rather something that happens to them. it is not easy to operate from that position in a relationship. Also, there is the issue that saying "I am sorry", or " I was wrong to say that or expect you to know something" etc., is incredibly RARE and almost never used in Thai relationships in general (in my experience). I can count the number of times my ex said such a thing to me (over 2 years together) - never. She never said such a thing on her own. It only came when I approached a "breakdown" and admitted my side in it and said I was sorry for the pain and was responsible for making a change on it in the future. She would offer an "I am sorry too". That does not mean much - lots of people are sorry for things, and few are responsible for making amends to fix things.

then there is the distasteful possibility that human beings (from a psychological perspective) were never meant to mate for life but rather were meant to have series of relationships, lasting different lenghts of time.

the Landmark Forum is a great place to take a failing relationship to clear out the past, identify what the real problems are holding one from reaching a new place in the relationship and focusing on the future which is based on new principles of communication and forgiveness.

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condotown

I want to share some things I have learned along the way and hope that maybe a few people may benefit in some way. Perhaps to some, I may be stating the obvious, and to others, small revelations.

I think you miss the point completely.

It's about money, time and support. And it is a struggle for control.

It is just this simple.. If a man can forget or forgo his own ego, needs, and instinctive urges and allow himself to be a whimpering, emasculated, co-dependent, submissive wuss, then the relationship will grow and strengthen through the years.

I think this is fine.... if the woman is paying for everything.

But I find it difficult, nay, impossible as a self-respecting man to let some child-minded person who has never had any disposable income in her life to take charge or even consider herself an equal in decision making authority in a relationship.

They are innately insecure... If you have all the time in the world and can buy them a lot of gifts and keep your mouth shut, you can keep them cooing into old age.

They will test you as a child tests his/her limitations with authority until they get scolded or slapped. Or.. you can submit and let the child run the show... And then disaster in the relationship or in your own life.

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condotown

Stop thinking so much and wrestling with your mind doing these exercises of mental masturbation. It has been repeatedly stated above that you must admit defeat and allow yourself to be controlled in order to have the "relationship" succeed.

It takes a gigantic leap of faith and ability to submit yourself to the unknown to make a relationship work with an unwieldy woman and hard to back out once so much time and money have been expended. It is on par with having faith in some "God" to think you can make a success out of such a union.

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KingLing

Well put condotown.

Even though I let my gf get the best of me at times so that the relationship stays smooth during misunderstandings.

I still put the foot down when I know she is in the wrong.

People are people and it doesn't matter what culture the relationship is made of.

Women will be women and men will be men.

Btw, My gf does say kook toot ( sorry ) when she is incorrect.

King

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luckyphil247

@ condotown ; interesting and I tend to agree

" If a man can forget or forgo his own ego, needs, and instinctive urges and allow himself to be a whimpering, emasculated, co-dependent, submissive wuss, then the relationship will grow and strengthen through the years. "

The only reward for the man is children .

Really don't want to share the degree of my Chauvinism on TF , but basically , I believe a woman's power stems from her ability to give birth . Part from that fact , I don't see any reason for any relationship with a woman lasting longer than a dirty weekend !!!

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