Saying " Sorry "

[luckyphil247]

I am marrying one later this month

Congratulations :P

[digitalcat]

Let's sum this up...

Problem:

There are Thai people that say they are sorry and some that don't.

Solution:

...Hang out only with the select individuals that understand your needs. Those who don't get it, won't change their ways simply because you are offended.

Problem:

Some people take offense that foreigners have an alleged "superiority complex".

Solution:

Don't hang out with those type of foreigners. If you feel they are invading your country isolate yourself in a secluded area, start a militia and shoot anything that looks remotely white. If they happen to be a pale skin Thai don't forget to forget to say SORRY.

Problem solved.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Also, "Sorry" is overrated.

It's just as annoying when a white guy/gal says sorry but doesn't change his/behavior, no matter how "genuine" the apology seems.

I.E.

Hey mate, remember the bicycle I let you borrow for a week? Can you give it back to me this week, its been 11 months...

"Ohhh I'm sorry man, so sorry."

**** that ****, just gimme back my bike.

______________________________________________

Dear, this is the 4th time you are more than 50 minutes late. (unacceptable by NYC standards).

"Oh I'm so sorry, I'll try to be on time next time"

That's what you said the last 4 times... can you just set an alarm or something?

[SweetieBabie]

I am marrying one later this month

Congratulations :P

"A friend of mine" is looking for a wedding reception place. huh!!!!! :wink:

+1 Happy for you brother. 8)

[skomaladat]

It is rather tiring, preparing and consolidating replies over the last 9 pages.

What OP?

It started with the insinuation that "... It is hard for Thai people to say I am sorry when they know that they are in the wrong or do they just flash it off like nothing was wrong just to save face????? ..." with the strong implication that everyone in Thailand have no ethics and manners?

Next came a statement that ".... in Thailand especially, a persons ego is one of the most important things and VERY sensitive indeed. I saw a survey done a few years ago here which ask Thai people what their top 10 most important things to them were. Ego came out top, even above family and money ..." adding fuel to the fire.

Following that, we read: "... In essence for a Thai person to say "I am sorry" would be very hard to do and in doing so it would be neither Lian or Mianzi ..."

... And a Dude implied that Thai girls love money, from its remark "Honey is a lot easier to say for thai girls...." and "... don't forget to pay her..." Well, hand me your money and I will throw them back on your god-damn face! Pretending to be poetic with insults on Thai culture is totally unacceptable whilst you claimed to be part of thailandfriends.

I tried to cut off the continuous sarcasms with a simple explanation "... Sorry, Face, Pride, and/or likewise, is international ... not Thai, Chinese, whatever ..." to no avail, receiving blunt criticism instead.

Other remarks followed

"... sorry seem to be the hardest word.... for Thais..." and many provocative remarks that I replied a second time.

Answer came back promptly ".... Clearly, in this situation, YOU have f*cked up... they have dont nothing but to be on time.....or are you going to just avoid a simple ADULT apology in this kind of case?...."

Trying to swallow my humble pie and not aggravating the situation, I just wished the writer "Enjoy your New Year", yet, he wasn't too satisfied, adding "... Ambiguous, pointless and boring. Who cares?....."

Most people accepted and have taken for granted that "Sorry" is an admittance of guilt or mistake. I tried to project another definition quoting 3 reliable sources, yet to no avail, receiving the reply ".... I am sorry that you feel this way about you trying to express your knowledge and opinion..."

OK, I got ".... 10 points for doing some research, but really I think you are 'splitting hairs' and making it more unnecessarily complicated...." (Unmistakably 10 out of 1,000,000 points ...ok, I failed very badly, because I am a Thai and not a farang!)

A Thai Lady trying to protect the Thai image received a blunt remark that ".... again... continuing to prove the point..even more avoidance from another Thai (who cant apologise I might add) of the ACTUAL question by the OP or offering any help to find any understanding ...."

A question was raised from the originator of the thread "....Would you say "sorry" if it was your mistake or error in all manners of life?..." did anyone asked back on why he initially insulted the whole population of Thailand "... It is hard for Thai people to say I am sorry..." , being egoistic and chauvinistic with the added remark of "....Then you will forever have the appreciation and respect from Westerners for this. Good on you for being so evolved ..."

The episode continued with remarks, in the attempt to avoid their own criticisms and insults against the Citizens of Thailand, yet contradicting themselves:

" ... Very true. Every culture has people who can be rude (not apologizing for leaving you waiting)..."

".... is so true but I will not be around to find out if the person learns to correct or not because that person will not be consider my friend or acquaintance..."

"...Without acknowledging what is ACTUALLY happening...("I feel") and just playing a childish game, avoiding the issue, switching blame to another, getting upset or angry...will never achieve anything meaningful in a relationship..."

"...Your apparent feelings of rage, resentment, self-deprecation and an overactive martyr syndrome could be an interesting peripheral thread. I don't see how any comment whatsoever within this thread was specifically directed at you, however why you feel it might make for a fascinating clinical thesis ..."

I am a Thai, and proud to be a Thai. The thread insulted people of Thailand including me. The thread being "It is hard for Thai people to say I am sorry when they know that they are in the wrong or do they just flash it off like nothing was wrong just to save face?????..", yet expecting friendship (as if I ever needed his at all) from his remark "....is so true but I will not be around to find out if the person learns to correct or not because that person will not be consider my friend or acquaintance...."

As a Thai to any farang who is so insulting and ill-mannered ... "Why are you in Thailand?"

[digitalcat]

White people are in Thailand for the same reasons that Thai's go elsewhere... those reasons are many and different from individual to individual.

Why bother respond to this forum, if it's going to make you upset. You are not going to change anyone's mind here... or your own.

This is for a sake of discussion. All bullshit and witty remarks aside... I have personally experienced the same issues with saying sorry in Thailand. I don't mind though, I just dismiss the person or let it go.

You have a resentment against farang, and it's coming out in your writing. In an intelligent well spoken way you are saying the same exact thing as the worst rednecks do in USA. "LOVE (this country) OR GET THE **** OUT"

You can live in a place and not love everything about it.

[LakeGeneve]

Let's sum this up...

Problem:

There are Thai people that say they are sorry and some that don't.

Solution:

...Hang out only with the select individuals that understand your needs. Those who don't get it, won't change their ways simply because you are offended.

Problem:

Some people take offense that foreigners have an alleged "superiority complex".

Solution:

Don't hang out with those type of foreigners. If you feel they are invading your country isolate yourself in a secluded area, start a militia and shoot anything that looks remotely white. If they happen to be a pale skin Thai don't forget to forget to say SORRY.

Problem solved.

Great !

You have a resentment against farang, and it's coming out in your writing. In an intelligent well spoken way you are saying the same exact thing as the worst rednecks do in USA. "LOVE (this country) OR GET THE f*ck OUT"

You can live in a place and not love everything about it.

Many seem to not understand the point of your last sentence. For them it is all or nothing. No scope for critical analysis, honest self reflection or shades of grey. Sad but unfortunately very widespread.

[SweetieBabie]

Oh how i love liberal exchange, return and refund policies in the west. Save all the cranking about sorry or not sorry.

[admin]

Oh how i love liberal exchange, return and refund policies in the west. Save all the cranking about sorry or not sorry.

LOL . . . I think that pretty much sums up the entire thread :-)

[skomaladat]

White people are in Thailand for the same reasons that Thai's go elsewhere... those reasons are many and different from individual to individual.

Why bother respond to this forum, if it's going to make you upset. You are not going to change anyone's mind here... or your own.

This is for a sake of discussion. All bullshit and witty remarks aside... I have personally experienced the same issues with saying sorry in Thailand. I don't mind though, I just dismiss the person or let it go.

You have a resentment against farang, and it's coming out in your writing. In an intelligent well spoken way you are saying the same exact thing as the worst rednecks do in USA. "LOVE (this country) OR GET THE f*ck OUT"

You can live in a place and not love everything about it.

There was NO resentment against any farang

It is a few farangs resentment against Thais, yet claiming to be thailandfriends, with the constant bombardment of sarcasm and insults against the people of Thailand. It would be worse a damn Westerner (not residing in Thailand) being insulting and trying to damn a Nation. So, I cannot tell the person to "...f*ck OUT.." when he is not here. Just F*ck OUT of thailandfriends!

This apparently is the Western Culture. Forget your mythical Tarzan and Jungle Jim. Come down to reality.

[English_Bob]

"... sorry seem to be the hardest word.... for Thais..." and many provocative remarks that I replied a second time.

Hi Sue -I wrote that post..... that phrase is a from a famous Elton John song.

The previous two or three quotes contained famous song lyrics, so I quoted another one.... then I added 'for Thais'... but then made it into a joke about pronunciation - 'Plomblem' - which is difficult for Thais to pronounce.

You are proud of your nation, that is clear.

I am sure you are proud of the great food.

I am sure you are proud of the warm, friendly people

And you should definitely be proud of the beautiful buildings.

These are all truths about your country... but I'm sure you will agree not ALL the food is great, and not all the people are friendly and many of the buildings are downright ugly.

But in GENERAL these things are true about Thailand.

However, there are some truths which are not so easy to swallow...

Thai people are often late.

Thai people (and maybe Asian people) don't apologise easily.

Thai people lie more easily than farangs.

Now these are also generalisations, and I know it's not true of everyone, but it's true of the majority - stereotypes come from observation. There is no department making up false stereotypes - they exist because they are generally true.

Another truth is that Thai people don't take criticism well and are blind to the flaws in their country.

In case you think I am bashing Thailand, I'm not... well not exactly... but I am telling you truths that may anger you. If you think with your brain and not your heart, you will see that all the things I wrote are generally true - both the good AND the bad.

As for farangs - we analyse well, but we argue quickly. We are pretty honest, but we criticise often. We try to be classless, but we are very opinionated. we value material possessions over spiritual growth.

I can see those things and I know them to be true of 'my people'.

I tell you this, because it's good to be aware of your failings as well as your achievements.

[PeeMarc]

It is a few farangs resentment against Thais, yet claiming to be thailandfriends, with the constant bombardment of sarcasm and insults against the people of Thailand.

for the record, and I think most westerners would agree, friends ARE the very people who CAN be honest, argue, debate, talk openly, analyze, banter and mock with each other... and still laugh, love and have a drink or meal together.

How are your friends?

Arent you taking yourself a little seriously here? (we've all been guilty of that sometimes).

[digitalcat]

It is a few farangs resentment against Thais, yet claiming to be thailandfriends, with the constant bombardment of sarcasm and insults against the people of Thailand.

for the record, and I think most westerners would agree, friends ARE the very people who CAN be honest, argue, debate, talk openly, analyze, banter and mock with each other... and still laugh, love and have a drink or meal together.

How are your friends?

Arent you taking yourself a little seriously here? (we've all been guilty of that sometimes).

but this isnt western friends is it peeMarc?

What happens in Thailand when you question somebody of status?

that being said

There is no need to corner people. If she is to agree that she is taking herself too seriously that would be a loss of face for both Thai or Westerner. No one likes to be humbled. This point has been beaten to a bloody pulp, there is no need to instigate further.

[SoBeIt]

White people are in Thailand for the same reasons that Thai's go elsewhere... those reasons are many and different from individual to individual.

Why bother respond to this forum, if it's going to make you upset. You are not going to change anyone's mind here... or your own.

You can live in a place and not love everything about it.

Agree with Vlad up there..

I always tell my bf that..

"Because I love you , it doesnt mean that I have to agree with you"

********************

Let put it like this.. So both Farang and Thai may live with each others without killing each others..

For Thai :

When you get the crticism... Open your heart as wide as possible.

Dont think the worst out of another one..

Maybe farangs also have their point there that is why they say it.

For Farang :

When you want to criticize Thais please be aware in your heart that..

Harsh words can hurt enormously to Thais more than you think even though you didnt meant to hurt them..

Once they feel like they get attacked..

They will react like.. blame other ppl else, get piss off and dont want to hear anything from you anymore..

And the chance for them to say "sorry" to you is zip..

So.. meet each others in the middle..

Try to talk when both are not so angry..

Maybe this will help..

[DANNO]

I was at a travel agency booking a trip to 3 different destinations ih Thailand.

Worked with the Thai agent for 2 hours in arranging the itinerary and bookings of Air Flights and Hotels.

Everything was satisfied and I paid the travel agency.

It should have been my mistake because I didn't read the final print out of the whole package before I left travel agency.

When I arrived at my 1st destination I finally pulled out the paper work for the package and realized that she had charged me too much for the Air Flight.

When I returned from my trip I went to the travel agency and presented the paper work of the over charged.

The Thai agent that worked with me on this package recognized the mistake but when the boss got into it....The Thai agent retracked her mistake all knowing that I knew she made a mistake and that she knew that she made the mistake.

There was no apology or refund of the over charge.

It was very disturbing to see that type of behavior.

Please everyone. I like you all to know that the question was not of discriminating intentions.

This is a Thai website so that is why I posed it towards the culture of Thailand.

King, that sounds more like a travel agent issue than a Thai culture issue. Just try doing business with Panda Travel on Kapahulu if you don't believe me!

My experience in Thailand has been that Thais are generally the same as any other people about saying "sorry"-- it depends on the individual and the nature of the interaction.

Stuff like this I just log for future reference and move on.

Yup I agree with you Rob

the poor agent who acknowledged the mistake to you King may have been in jepordy with her job...so when her boss got involved ...she may have decided to look out for number one... ( who knows why right?)

[DANNO]

White people are in Thailand for the same reasons that Thai's go elsewhere... those reasons are many and different from individual to individual.

Why bother respond to this forum, if it's going to make you upset. You are not going to change anyone's mind here... or your own.

This is for a sake of discussion. All bullshit and witty remarks aside... I have personally experienced the same issues with saying sorry in Thailand. I don't mind though, I just dismiss the person or let it go.

You have a resentment against farang, and it's coming out in your writing. In an intelligent well spoken way you are saying the same exact thing as the worst rednecks do in USA. "LOVE (this country) OR GET THE f*ck OUT"

You can live in a place and not love everything about it.

Thanks comrade :!: :!:

[DANNO]

I am late to the "party" ( have to say it ...."sorry" )

being on the other side of the world...

with the exceptions of some

chippy personal shots...(really folks get a room)

this thread is why:

I love this site

what a crazy screwed up....beautiful world we are living in!

thanks for the insights folks...thanks King

**** the $49 bucks for a membership is a bargin!

[pandorea]

Agree with Vlad up there..

I always tell my bf that..

"Because I love you , it doesnt mean that I have to agree with you"

********************

.

And even I love you and agree with you, that doesn't mean I like you.

If that doesn't make sense, I'm sorry.

[DANNO]

Agree with Vlad up there..

I always tell my bf that..

"Because I love you , it doesnt mean that I have to agree with you"

********************

.

And even I love you and agree with you, that doesn't mean I like you.

If that doesn't make sense, I'm sorry.

And even "I hate you!" may mean I like you! :heart:

[skomaladat]

The INSULT issued against THAILAND was

"Is it hard for Thai people to say I am sorry when they know they are in the wrong or do they just flash it off like nothing was wrong just to save face?????"

So, now, a few of the Thai haters are writing nonsense to avoid the question in the thread again .... that is to prove that they had all the time been correct. Issuing idiotic statements to save their face?

Stop your nonsense right away, Supreme White Men

[English_Bob]

The INSULT issued against THAILAND was

"Is it hard for Thai people to say I am sorry when they know they are in the wrong or do they just flash it off like nothing was wrong just to save face?????"

So, now, a few of the Thai haters are writing nonsense to avoid the question in the thread again .... that is to prove that they had all the time been correct. Issuing idiotic statements to save their face?

Stop your nonsense right away, Supreme White Men

A question isn't an insult... It's a question.

If you feel insulted, maybe it's because it touched a nerve.

If someone calls you a donkey, you can get angry... When 3 people call you a donkey, it's time to buy a saddle!

Do you believe that there is a bunch of white guys writing stereotypes? No - people say this stuff because they observe it to be true - day after day after day!

Thai people have national characteristics - good ones and bad ones.

Funny, because one bad thing about Thai people is their inability to hear criticism about their country. And another bad thing is they are xenophobic.

Both of which you demonstrated nicely in your last post.

[skomaladat]

The INSULT issued against THAILAND was

"Is it hard for Thai people to say I am sorry when they know they are in the wrong or do they just flash it off like nothing was wrong just to save face?????"

So, now, a few of the Thai haters are writing nonsense to avoid the question in the thread again .... that is to prove that they had all the time been correct. Issuing idiotic statements to save their face?

Stop your nonsense right away, Supreme White Men

A question isn't an insult... It's a question.

If you feel insulted, maybe it's because it touched a nerve.

If someone calls you a donkey, you can get angry... When 3 people call you a donkey, it's time to buy a saddle!

Do you believe that there is a bunch of white guys writing stereotypes? No - people say this stuff because they observe it to be true - day after day after day!

Thai people have national characteristics - good ones and bad ones.

Funny, because one bad thing about Thai people is their inability to hear criticism about their country. And another bad thing is they are xenophobic.

Both of which you demonstrated nicely in your last post.

This is truly an real Cockney way of reply after the farangs take pop shots at THAILAND

Congratulations on your Great White Law

[Chatty]

I was at a travel agency booking a trip to 3 different destinations ih Thailand.

Worked with the Thai agent for 2 hours in arranging the itinerary and bookings of Air Flights and Hotels.

Everything was satisfied and I paid the travel agency.

It should have been my mistake because I didn't read the final print out of the whole package before I left travel agency.

When I arrived at my 1st destination I finally pulled out the paper work for the package and realized that she had charged me too much for the Air Flight.

When I returned from my trip I went to the travel agency and presented the paper work of the over charged.

The Thai agent that worked with me on this package recognized the mistake but when the boss got into it....The Thai agent retracked her mistake all knowing that I knew she made a mistake and that she knew that she made the mistake.

There was no apology or refund of the over charge.

It was very disturbing to see that type of behavior.

Please everyone. I like you all to know that the question was not of discriminating intentions.

This is a Thai website so that is why I posed it towards the culture of Thailand.

King, that sounds more like a travel agent issue than a Thai culture issue. Just try doing business with Panda Travel on Kapahulu if you don't believe me!

My experience in Thailand has been that Thais are generally the same as any other people about saying "sorry"-- it depends on the individual and the nature of the interaction.

Stuff like this I just log for future reference and move on.

Yup I agree with you Rob

the poor agent who acknowledged the mistake to you King may have been in jepordy with her job...so when her boss got involved ...she may have decided to look out for number one... ( who knows why right?)

hmm p'Danno,

In case you didn't see p'King's post,

He said she was Thai, and it was Thai Agency, and it happened in Thailand.

[Rob]

I was at a travel agency booking a trip to 3 different destinations ih Thailand.

Worked with the Thai agent for 2 hours in arranging the itinerary and bookings of Air Flights and Hotels.

Everything was satisfied and I paid the travel agency.

It should have been my mistake because I didn't read the final print out of the whole package before I left travel agency.

When I arrived at my 1st destination I finally pulled out the paper work for the package and realized that she had charged me too much for the Air Flight.

When I returned from my trip I went to the travel agency and presented the paper work of the over charged.

The Thai agent that worked with me on this package recognized the mistake but when the boss got into it....The Thai agent retracked her mistake all knowing that I knew she made a mistake and that she knew that she made the mistake.

There was no apology or refund of the over charge.

It was very disturbing to see that type of behavior.

Please everyone. I like you all to know that the question was not of discriminating intentions.

This is a Thai website so that is why I posed it towards the culture of Thailand.

King, that sounds more like a travel agent issue than a Thai culture issue. Just try doing business with Panda Travel on Kapahulu if you don't believe me!

My experience in Thailand has been that Thais are generally the same as any other people about saying "sorry"-- it depends on the individual and the nature of the interaction.

Stuff like this I just log for future reference and move on.

Yup I agree with you Rob

the poor agent who acknowledged the mistake to you King may have been in jepordy with her job...so when her boss got involved ...she may have decided to look out for number one... ( who knows why right?)

hmm p'Danno,

In case you didn't see p'King's post,

He said she was Thai, and it was Thai Agency, and it happened in Thailand.

¹éç˹Öè§, my point was that the incident could have happened anywhere, even in King's home state, Hawaii, where I had a similar experience with a travel agency. I think that's the point on which Danno is agreeing.

[skomaladat]

I was at a travel agency booking a trip to 3 different destinations ih Thailand.

Worked with the Thai agent for 2 hours in arranging the itinerary and bookings of Air Flights and Hotels.

Everything was satisfied and I paid the travel agency.

It should have been my mistake because I didn't read the final print out of the whole package before I left travel agency.

When I arrived at my 1st destination I finally pulled out the paper work for the package and realized that she had charged me too much for the Air Flight.

When I returned from my trip I went to the travel agency and presented the paper work of the over charged.

The Thai agent that worked with me on this package recognized the mistake but when the boss got into it....The Thai agent retracked her mistake all knowing that I knew she made a mistake and that she knew that she made the mistake.

There was no apology or refund of the over charge.

It was very disturbing to see that type of behavior.

Please everyone. I like you all to know that the question was not of discriminating intentions.

This is a Thai website so that is why I posed it towards the culture of Thailand.

King, that sounds more like a travel agent issue than a Thai culture issue. Just try doing business with Panda Travel on Kapahulu if you don't believe me!

My experience in Thailand has been that Thais are generally the same as any other people about saying "sorry"-- it depends on the individual and the nature of the interaction.

Stuff like this I just log for future reference and move on.

Yup I agree with you Rob

the poor agent who acknowledged the mistake to you King may have been in jepordy with her job...so when her boss got involved ...she may have decided to look out for number one... ( who knows why right?)

hmm p'Danno,

In case you didn't see p'King's post,

He said she was Thai, and it was Thai Agency, and it happened in Thailand.

Also note that the dumb was stupid not to check. Did he apologise that he was stupid, or simply pushed the blame to the girl. What if the girl was from Vietnam/Cambodia/Myanmar working in Thailand with the ability to converse in Thai? Did that ONE girl represent the whole of Thailand?

[OxZy_JaNe]

White people are in Thailand for the same reasons that Thai's go elsewhere... those reasons are many and different from individual to individual.

Why bother respond to this forum, if it's going to make you upset. You are not going to change anyone's mind here... or your own.

You can live in a place and not love everything about it.

Agree with Vlad up there..

I always tell my bf that..

"Because I love you , it doesnt mean that I have to agree with you"

********************

Let put it like this.. So both Farang and Thai may live with each others without killing each others..

For Thai :

When you get the crticism... Open your heart as wide as possible.

Dont think the worst out of another one..

Maybe farangs also have their point there that is why they say it.

For Farang :

When you want to criticize Thais please be aware in your heart that..

Harsh words can hurt enormously to Thais more than you think even though you didnt meant to hurt them..

Once they feel like they get attacked..

They will react like.. blame other ppl else, get piss off and dont want to hear anything from you anymore..

And the chance for them to say "sorry" to you is zip..

So.. meet each others in the middle..

Try to talk when both are not so angry..

Maybe this will help..

Whole heartedly agree with you!

We are not critical and don't really like to be criticized.

That's the ugly truth of SOME Thais.

So pls use sweet words when u start criticizing us like I think...., is it better to..

in order to avoiding hurting our sensitive feeling naka.

^.^