Are Thai Women Conservative?

[FarangFarang]

I was kind of surprised at this week's Stickman column where he talks about how conservative Thai's are.

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/StickmanBangkokWeeklyColumn2011/Marriage-In-Thailand.htm

For some reason this seemed to me like those old tourism guides that tell you to never touch a Thai on their head or that Thais never kiss or hold hands in public. In other words, sure, there may be some people who still behave like this but they are very much the minority.

I mean, I regularly see Thais touching babies, children, and others on the top of the head. And sure, some people may refrain from public displays of affection but jump on the BTS and there are always young Thai couples holding hands or with their arms around each other.

So when I read Stick's article and he's talking about how Thai women are kept pristine until marriage I'm sort of like . . . . "Uhm, then can someone explain all of the 16 year old single moms?"

Maybe I spend too much time in the wrong parts of town but is Stick's version of Thai women accurate?

[pandorea]

Many things in LOS have changed lots, Bill. What written on Stickman was true when I was a teenage. I've been living outside Thailand like 20 years and every time I visit LOS I can see things have changed. ... But only one thing still the same as I was in my early teen... Thai soap opera!!!!

[Flipamerican]

Yes, Irvine is the wrong part of town.

[FarangFarang]

  pandorea said:

Many things in LOS have changed lots, Bill. What written on Stickman was true when I was a teenage. I've been living outside Thailand like 20 years and every time I visit LOS I can see things have changed. ... But only one thing still the same as I was in my early teen... Thai soap opera!!!!

That's sort of what I was thinking. Sure, 20 years ago but this is this week's column from Stickman. Surely this is not common or normal these days?

Of all the women I've ever gone out with, only 2 have suggested a chaparone. One used it as an excuse to invite 5 of her friends along and the other I canceled the date after she kept calling back to make changes to the time, place, where we would meet, etc, and then she sprung the "Can I invite my aunt?" on me. The closest to a real chaparone experience I've had are girls who suggest meeting on their turf (a place they know well) or who "arrange" to run into friends while we're out.

[FarangFarang]

  Flipamerican said:

Yes, Irvine is the wrong part of town.

Depends on what you mean by wrong part. I think the population is 60% Asian.

[Flipamerican]

  FarangFarang said:

Depends on what you mean by wrong part. I think the population is 60% Asian.

Really?? So do you still feel like a Farang?

As for the topic here...I met one girl since I moved to BKK that would fit this definition of "conservative." That being said, I think
99% of the girls I did meet here are very nice people and I am happy to have met them.

[Stramash]

  Flipamerican said:

Yes, Irvine is the wrong part of town.

You seem to know Ayrshire well... ; )

[FarangFarang]

  Flipamerican said:

Really?? So do you still feel like a Farang?

As for the topic here...I met one girl since I moved to BKK that would fit this definition of "conservative." That being said, I think

99% of the girls I did meet here are very nice people and I am happy to have met them.

Yes, I didn't mean to imply anything negative about not being conservative. Just that Stick's description of Thai women seems seriously outdated compared to what I've seen and met while in Thailand.

You keep hearing all of these "rules" that you should follow in Thailand and sometimes the people giving the advice don't keep up with everything going on around them.

For instance, many guides still say that Thais should never be touched on the head. I know several people who will swear up and down that Thais don't do public displays of affection.

Stickman wrote another article maybe a month or two ago and said that you should never take a "nice girl" (i.e. a girl who doesn't work in prostitution) to Nana or Cowboy. I guess he doesn't have many friends like some of the TF gals who have insisted we go see a "show." LOL

I just wanted to get a take on the topic from Thais. Maybe I've lived in a sheltered world of debauchery and Thais really are conservative. I'm just trying to broaden my point of view.

Edited September 19, 2011 by FarangFarang

[Chatty]

  FarangFarang said:

For some reason this seemed to me like those old tourism guides that tell you to never touch a Thai on their head or that Thais never kiss or hold hands in public. In other words, sure, there may be some people who still behave like this but they are very much the minority.

I mean, I regularly see Thais touching babies, children, and others on the top of the head. And sure, some people may refrain from public displays of affection but jump on the BTS and there are always young Thai couples holding hands or with their arms around each other.

If you ask me, yes I do mind when someone younger than me touch my head. For older ppl. that's fine to do.
About showing off, holding hands, kissing stuff... many girls in MY GENERATION not feeling doing it in public places, but many young generation love to show off just like p'Nicky said the world changes same as Thailand.

  FarangFarang said:

So when I read Stick's article and he's talking about how Thai women are kept pristine until marriage I'm sort of like . . . . "Uhm, then can someone explain all of the 16 year old single moms?"

Well, speaking for my generation, they like to keep their virginity... my friends or girls around me still never get any kisses in this age. It might be wierd for you to hear, but this is my social.

Yes, we do have problem with young age mothers, should i blame hollywood?

[English_Bob]

I think we often have a distorted view of Thailand because we live in Bangkok.

In rural areas, I would think the conservative habits still survive.

[pandorea]

  Quote

Yes, we do have problem with young age mothers, should i blame hollywood?

No, Hollywood has nothing to do with that. If we must blame anything or anyone, blame it on sex education in Thailand.

[Chatty]

  English_Bob said:

I think we often have a distorted view of Thailand because we live in Bangkok.

In rural areas, I would think the conservative habits still survive.

Oh you come back!!

Well, there are many factors about "Conservative" Thai girls, not only about area.

1. Their generation (we have been tought to keep our virginity til we get married), as I said many friends in my generation and older never been kissed. One of my friend, guy took years to hold his GF. hands, and he was shocked when we girl friends talked about some ppl sex life.

2. Their families, how parents tought their kids.. it's affect their kids' believing

3. Friends, their social, and people around. Yeah! social network. Some of my friends said "You are not Thai" cuz some of my attitude.

4. Media

[Chatty]

  pandorea said:

No, Hollywood has nothing to do with that. If we must blame anything or anyone, blame it on sex education in Thailand.

lol I have been tought about sex when I was 13-14 years old, วิชาสุขศึกษา I remember, teacher tried to skip this part by talked about it very very short.

[CiaranM]

  English_Bob said:

I think we often have a distorted view of Thailand because we live in Bangkok.

In rural areas, I would think the conservative habits still survive.

i guess that tends to be the case in most countries and not just Thailand !!! although what r conservative habits may vary from country to country !!

[pandorea]

  Chatty said:

lol I have been tought about sex when I was 13-14 years old, วิชาสุขศึกษา I remember, teacher tried to skip this part by talked about it very very short.

And they made us watch a documntary about abortion in a classroom at the university. All details were shown... All kind of equipments ;((( It made me sick and I stopped กินแหนมป้าย่น for weeks.

[pandorea]

  Chatty said:

Oh you come back!!

Well, there are many factors about "Conservative" Thai girls, not only about area.

1. Their generation (we have been tought to keep our virginity til we get married), as I said many friends in my generation and older never been kissed. One of my friend, guy took years to hold his GF. hands, and he was shocked when we girl friends talked about some ppl sex life.

2. Their families, how parents tought their kids.. it's affect their kids' believing

3. Friends, their social, and people around. Yeah! social network. Some of my friends said "You are not Thai" cuz some of my attitude.

4. Media

This might sound strange to some, but I think it's wrong to forbid teenagers from having sex. If I have teenage kids, I will let them but teach them how to have safe sex and not with too many different partners. All of my teenage nephews & nieces in-law (16-21 years old) are sexualy active. My nieces in law are on birth control medicine since they were 15. It's very normal here.

We haven't been teached to look at sex as a part and as a normal way of life, but tabu.

Some of my friends said something like that to me to Nong1. Then I asked them, what is Thai? No one replied yet...

Edited September 20, 2011 by pandorea

[English_Bob]

I like chaperoned dates!

I just found out I have one tomorrow. A girlfriend and her pal from University who wants us to cheer her up.

Hooray for conservatives!

[daniel123]

its like trying to Generalize an entire culture with one sentence -

The truth is so vast that our limited 3D brains just cannot contemplate different views so we choose a few and attempt to generalize/stereotype and put in boxes an entire nation.

If Thais are ultra conservative why are there way more open minded in other aspects?

Age/culture/generations/North Versus South/Poor versus Rich/ Ego/ Education/ and a whole lot more...

Put that in the mixing pot of Globalisation, Getting a farang BF, Looking down on anyone not Thai, And politics

And you may as well just give up on generalization...

They are what they are...

A contradiction in themselves... just like us...

The Brits have a stiff upper lip/ Are polite/ Well educated/ conservative... Oh yes Once upon a time n they all lived happily ever after!

Stick has settled down for a few years now and probably has entered into the conservative life of family/elder Thais/educated with some money behind them. Perhaps he is speaking from his new points of view nowdays...

[Chatty]

  pandorea said:

This might sound strange to some, but I think it's wrong to forbid teenagers from having sex. If I have teenage kids, I will let them but teach them how to have safe sex and not with too many different partners. All of my teenage nephews & nieces in-law (16-21 years old) are sexualy active. My nieces in law are on birth control medicine since they were 15. It's very normal here.

We haven't been teached to look at sex as a part and as a normal way of life, but tabu.

Some of my friends said something like that to me to Nong1. Then I asked them, what is Thai? No one replied yet...

Agree kha p'Nick about teenager have to be tought about sex more...

You remind me about a Thai Entertainment a couple months ago, there was Thai movie star, he is 19 years old. His mother gave him condoms before he go out with his friends, boys and girls. After that this issue was talk of the town. Some ppl blame her, like she supported her son to have sex in young age.

but I really do agree with her... save than sorry

About "Being Thai" I don't know, just whip everything bad under rug? or saving faces?

Many issues such as abortion, I know ppl. will disagree with me, and think I'm cruela but we lost many girls from illegal abortion, or young age mothers, let make it legal, make it save and clean.

[English_Bob]

  daniel123 said:

its like trying to Generalize an entire culture with one sentence -

The truth is so vast that our limited 3D brains just cannot contemplate different views so we choose a few and attempt to generalize/stereotype and put in boxes an entire nation.

If Thais are ultra conservative why are there way more open minded in other aspects?

Age/culture/generations/North Versus South/Poor versus Rich/ Ego/ Education/ and a whole lot more...

Put that in the mixing pot of Globalisation, Getting a farang BF, Looking down on anyone not Thai, And politics

And you may as well just give up on generalization...

They are what they are...

A contradiction in themselves... just like us...

The Brits have a stiff upper lip/ Are polite/ Well educated/ conservative... Oh yes Once upon a time n they all lived happily ever after!

Stick has settled down for a few years now and probably has entered into the conservative life of family/elder Thais/educated with some money behind them. Perhaps he is speaking from his new points of view nowdays...

But there ARE racial/national characteristics that are true for the majority.

For example, would it be wrong to say 'Thais love their king'? Of course, someone is always going to say 'Not all of them.' But that's already implied. We understand that not every single individual is the same, but we accept generalisations because they are useful.

English men? We like football. I know not all of us, but enough to make it a true sentence.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pretending that these generalisations are not true is pointless. And usually the person who says 'Not every one!' is well aware that most or many people do fit with stereotypes. The notion of stereotypes comes from millions of people observing millions of other people for many years and coming to a collective understanding.

If I were to say 'Thai people are very friendly, smile a lot and love spicy food.', only an idiot would say, 'Not all of them!' Because all of these behaviours have been noted by millions of people and seen to be true. I have no doubt there are a whole bunch of grumpy, unhelpful Thais who just love to eat joke.

If I were to say 'Thai people don't plan well, lie often and are less productive than Japanese people.', there would be an outcry of 'Not all of them!!!' That's because we are programmed to accept positive stereotypes (friendly, smiley, polite) and reject negatives (rude, dishonest, lazy).

Here is another example. Russian people drink a lot of alcohol... "Oh no! You can't say that! Not all of them! That's a stereotype!"

And yet if we look here...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption we can see that Russia rates 5th in the world of alcohol consumption per capita.

If I were working in a business that dealt with exporting alcohol, how long would I keep my job if I were to say, "Not all Russians like a drink."?

Thais have characterisitics and so do other nations/races. Some are good, some are bad.

[English_Bob]

  Chatty said:

Oh you come back!!

I'm always around, but I chose not to participate in that other forum. There didn't seem any point.

[FarangFarang]

  English_Bob said:

I like chaperoned dates!

I just found out I have one tomorrow. A girlfriend and her pal from University who wants us to cheer her up.

Hooray for conservatives!

That's not really a chaperoned date. That's a date with someone who's bringing a third-wheel.

Not sure if you read Stick's article, but what he describes is a proper chaperoned date.

[FarangFarang]

  English_Bob said:

But there ARE racial/national characteristics that are true for the majority.

For example, would it be wrong to say 'Thais love their king'? Of course, someone is always going to say 'Not all of them.' But that's already implied. We understand that not every single individual is the same, but we accept generalisations because they are useful.

English men? We like football. I know not all of us, but enough to make it a true sentence.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pretending that these generalisations are not true is pointless. And usually the person who says 'Not every one!' is well aware that most or many people do fit with stereotypes. The notion of stereotypes comes from millions of people observing millions of other people for many years and coming to a collective understanding.

If I were to say 'Thai people are very friendly, smile a lot and love spicy food.', only an idiot would say, 'Not all of them!' Because all of these behaviours have been noted by millions of people and seen to be true. I have no doubt there are a whole bunch of grumpy, unhelpful Thais who just love to eat joke.

If I were to say 'Thai people don't plan well, lie often and are less productive than Japanese people.', there would be an outcry of 'Not all of them!!!' That's because we are programmed to accept positive stereotypes (friendly, smiley, polite) and reject negatives (rude, dishonest, lazy).

Here is another example. Russian people drink a lot of alcohol... "Oh no! You can't say that! Not all of them! That's a stereotype!"

And yet if we look here...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption we can see that Russia rates 5th in the world of alcohol consumption per capita.

If I were working in a business that dealt with exporting alcohol, how long would I keep my job if I were to say, "Not all Russians like a drink."?

Thais have characterisitics and so do other nations/races. Some are good, some are bad.

There's a book by Dr. Thomas Sowell called Ethnic America and he traces the source of ethnic stereotypes in the US and finds that most of them originated from factual events. For instance, the "Fighting Irish" or the "drunk Irish" or even the term "Paddy Wagon" (police van used to take people to jail) all derived from the many instances of drunken brawls in predominantly Irish neighborhoods.

Like EB says, people will generally accept positive stereotypes like "Thais are friendly" but immediately reject negative stereotypes like "Thais are poor planners" without even stopping to examine whether or not the statements are true.

And like EB mentioned, there's a built in assumption that when you say "Americans . . . " or "Thais . . . " that it doesn't mean every last man, woman, and child are strictly confined to that stereotype. But, if you look at society as a whole, many times the stereotypes tend to be more true than not.

In terms of this issue, the question is whether, in general, Thai women are conservative. As I mentioned, maybe 20 years ago which sort of fits in with the generate that Chatty and Nicky grew up in but this article was written Sunday so the question is whether or not what Stickman wrote about Thai attitudes towards sex and dating are accurate for today's women.

I think the fact that both Chatty and Nicky prefaced their responses with how things have changed from their day to today sort of gives us the answer.

[surismiley]

I think it was true in the passing years but nowadays, things changed a lot by media influence and new social norms. Anyway I still believe that there is a minority group that still be very conservative. But I do believe that the 'Majority' adapted into new culture, it is just the survival instinct! LOL

[Stramash]

  CiaranM said:

i guess that tends to be the case in most countries and not just Thailand !!! although what r conservative habits may vary from country to country !!

Rubbish!! British country girls are utter sluts!