2009/10 Premiership

[Stramash]

thought it time (till mid season at least) to lay the 'Man Utd are sh*t' thread to rest.

So, am I the only Arsenal fan to see Adebayor and Toure head to Man City, with a combined transfer income from those transactions of between 38 and 41 million GBP, and wonder if any of it is going to be spent in the next 2 weeks?

:roll:

[CiaranM]

squad wasn't strong enough last season so we buy a new centre half .... we then decide to sell our top scoring centre forward and first choice centre half !! :roll: :roll:

now i know adebayor didn't look f**king interested last season and for me toure hasn't been the same player since he contracted malaria ... but FFS we need at least 1 more centre half and 1 hard bastard in midfield !! we should have at least 30-40 million avaiable so get that f**king cheque book out Arsene !!

[S123arpedon]

I think Chelsea will win it. I am with 2unique....least changes and a decent manager. They havent bought a lot of players but Zhirkov looks like a decent addition to the team.

Man U will be right up there, as they always are. Liverpool, well if they lose Mascherano and Alonso they will be seriously weakened.

The Goons need to spend some of that money. Not sure what their financial situation is but maybe they need to use some of they cash for other things. Will they now be playing Walcott and Van Persie up front??

Man City with all their new found wealth have accumulated a group of very good players but who knows how they will perform as a team. This will be a big season for Hughes, can he get the team playing as a team, can he cope with having such a large squad? I think they will be top 6 at the end of the season. He will be judged quite a lot on his results against the top 4.

Spurs have brought in Crouch and are looking to bring in a couple more players I think. They will be around the top 6 but no way will they be near the top 4 this season.

[S123arpedon]

squad wasn't strong enough last season so we buy a new centre half .... we then decide to sell our top scoring centre forward and first choice centre half !! :roll: :roll:

now i know adebayor didn't look f**king interested last season and for me toure hasn't been the same player since he contracted malaria ... but FFS we need at least 1 more centre half and 1 hard bastard in midfield !! we should have at least 30-40 million avaiable so get that f**king cheque book out Arsene !!

If you believe some of the rumours going round at the moment then Viera might be back at the Arse on a pay as you play deal, maybe this is your hard bastard in midfield.

The other rumour is that he 'Arry is looking to bring him to Spurs!

:roll:

[Stramash]

(Robert Peston on bbc.co.uk)

I've obtained a copy of the financial analysis of Arsenal that was made by the investment bank Lazard Brothers in support of Alisher Usmanov's proposal that the club should raise up to 150 M GBP in a rights issue.

It's a chunky 35-page document. But its conclusion can be summed up very simply: Arsenal has too much debt to pose a serious challenge to Europe's biggest clubs; or to use the jargon, it is over-leveraged, too thinly capitalised.

This is a verdict that has been rejected by Arsenal's board, which has been advised by NM Rothschild.

The North London club's directors argue that paying down debt would have only a marginal impact on the availability of financial resources.

Of course, as an Arsenal-supporting BBC journalist, I couldn't possible take sides in this dispute between the Uzbekistani plutocrat and Arsenal's directors.

But some of you will be interested in Usmanov's point of view.

Here are a few bullet points from the Lazard document:

1) It believes that Arsenal's earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation (EBITDA) will fall from between 55-60 M GBP in 2009 to 35-40 M GBP in 2010. The most striking contributor to this squeeze that it cites is a 12-14% increase in costs to 179 M GBP "as a result of players being compensated for tax changes and a number of step-ups in wages for individual players".

2) It predicts that cash flow will fall by more than that because of some pre-payments on assorted deals that were taken in 2007.

3) It says that Arsenal's fans are already paying 40% more than the average for the big four English clubs for match tickets and 24% more for season tickets - implying there's little scope to increase gate revenues, especially in a recession.

4) It calculates Arsenal's gross average annual spend on new players as 18 M GBP, compared with 37 M GBP for the big four; and the net annual spend, including sales, as precisely zero, compared with a 20.2 M GBP big four average

5) Perhaps most germanely of all, it fears that redevelopment of Arsenal's former Highbury stadium into luxury apartments may not turn out to be profitable - and that refinancing 140 M GBP of property-related debt over the next couple of years will be neither cheap or easy.

So Usmanov - the second-biggest shareholder in Arsenal with a 25 per cent stake - suggests that investors stump up a maximum of 150 M GBP via a rights issue of new shares.

This would provide additional funds for Arsene Wenger to augment the playing squad, and/or pay off some of the property debt, and/or pay down a substantial portion of the 242 M GBP of separate debt incurred to fund the development of the new Emirates stadium.

As I say, Arsenal's board has said no to all this, following detailed scrutiny by bankers from Rothschild - which included those bankers sounding out the most important individual at the club, Arsene Wenger.

The advice to the board from Rothschild was;

a) paying down the Emirates-related debt would save a maximum of 5 M GBP a year;

there are better ways to rehabilitate the Highbury redevelopment, including a putative cunning plan under negotiation right now - and even if the worst came to the worst, there should be no direct financial contagion to the club, since the providers of the property loans have no recourse to the footballing assets;

c) perhaps most controversially, the chaps from Rothschild don't believe Arsene Wenger is seriously constrained by lack of finance in his ability to develop the playing squad - and, more importantly, they don't believe that he feels fettered (if you see what I mean).

All of which would be described by some as a courageous blocking tackle: turning down equity finance during a sharp recession, and while the worst conditions in living memory for property developers prevail, well that's quite ballsy.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[CiaranM]

problem is Lazards will want to paint as gloomy a picture as possible of the current situation, while Rothschilds want to downplay the impact of a new shares issue. i find it hard to believe the projection that arsenal's earnings will drop by 20 million next year !!

unfortunate thing is .... how f**king much of that 40 million has arsene got to spend !!!!!!! we can't afford to sell toure and adebayor and not replace them ... FFS squad is going to be weaker than last year !!

:roll: :shock: :roll:

[Stramash]

problem is Lazards will want to paint as gloomy a picture as possible of the current situation, while Rothschilds want to downplay the impact of a new shares issue. i find it hard to believe the projection that arsenal's earnings will drop by 20 million next year !!

unfortunate thing is .... how f**king much of that 40 million has arsene got to spend !!!!!!! we can't afford to sell toure and adebayor and not replace them ... FFS squad is going to be weaker than last year !!

:roll: :shock: :roll:

exactly my beer swilling Irish chum, but time is running out.

Agree with your views on Lazard vs Rothchild; each will play up their points. Perhaps an average of all those figures would be closer to accuracy?

I discount the Viera rumour, principally because it is mainly carried by The Sun, a newspaper that relates as much accurate news as The Beano, but also because of Wenger's age policy.

I am really hoping Wenger has an ace up his sleeve. Although I love being right, in this case I really don't want to be sitting mid-season saying 'I told you so' as people cry for Wenger's head.

Time to spend some of that Man City cash...

[S123arpedon]

How many Arse fans do we have on here!! :shock:

[Stramash]

How many Arse fans do we have on here!! :shock:

6,457

[CiaranM]

problem is Lazards will want to paint as gloomy a picture as possible of the current situation, while Rothschilds want to downplay the impact of a new shares issue. i find it hard to believe the projection that arsenal's earnings will drop by 20 million next year !!

unfortunate thing is .... how f**king much of that 40 million has arsene got to spend !!!!!!! we can't afford to sell toure and adebayor and not replace them ... FFS squad is going to be weaker than last year !!

:roll: :shock: :roll:

exactly my beer swilling Irish chum, but time is running out.

Agree with your views on Lazard vs Rothchild; each will play up their points. Perhaps an average of all those figures would be closer to accuracy?

I discount the Viera rumour, principally because it is mainly carried by The Sun, a newspaper that relates as much accurate news as The Beano, but also because of Wenger's age policy.

I am really hoping Wenger has an ace up his sleeve. Although I love being right, in this case I really don't want to be sitting mid-season saying 'I told you so' as people cry for Wenger's head.

Time to spend some of that Man City cash...

Iain i've never denied we needed strengthening in key areas for the past number of seasons. however, my arguement has always been that the funds just were not being made available ... therefore getting rid of wenger doesn't solve the problem. in fact i don't think any other manager could have coped as well with such a shortage of funds. if that 40 million isn't made available to him something is f**king badly wrong !!!

[LakeGeneve]

How many Arse fans do we have on here!! :shock:

6,457

Of which only 6 are active on TF!

[Stramash]

truce!!!!

I know, and both the Lazard and Rothchild reports show, that we do have debt (though not as much as some).

But let's at least spend that 40 mill!!

[Stramash]

How many Arse fans do we have on here!! :shock:

6,457

Of which only 6 are active on TF!

which is roughly proportionate to the total TF membership to active TF members ratio!!!

[CiaranM]

truce!!!!

I know, and both the Lazard and Rothchild reports show, that we do have debt (though not as much as some).

But let's at least spend that 40 mill!!

i'm just hoping ... really f**king hoping that the 26 million we've already spent on Arshavin and Vermaelen hasn't been factored into the 40 million we got for Toure and Adebayor !!! :roll:

[LakeGeneve]

truce!!!!

I know, and both the Lazard and Rothchild reports show, that we do have debt (though not as much as some).

But let's at least spend that 40 mill!!

i'm just hoping ... really f**king hoping that the 26 million we've already spent on Arshavin and Vermaelen hasn't been factored into the 40 million we got for Toure and Adebayor !!! :roll:

I just hope that a few of the younger players step up this year and that no one as important as Fabregas gets a long term injury.

[S123arpedon]

And who are the younger player they have on their books? Wilshire, any others?

I always feel the same come the start of the season about Arsenal, i think that they will drop further behind the top 4 but they always still manage to stay there or thereabouts.

The season just gone I truly thought that Villa would pip Arsenal to that 4th spot but they fell short when it mattered.

I think it will be a win for Spurs at the Lane and then a draw at the Emirates this season!

[Stramash]

And who are the younger player they have on their books? Wilshire, any others?

I always feel the same come the start of the season about Arsenal, i think that they will drop further behind the top 4 but they always still manage to stay there or thereabouts.

The season just gone I truly thought that Villa would pip Arsenal to that 4th spot but they fell short when it mattered.

I think it will be a win for Spurs at the Lane and then a draw at the Emirates this season!

watched a strong Spurs team lose 2-0 to Celtic the other day, who in turn lost 1-0 to Dinamo Moscow last night.

Spurs will be lucky to chase a Europa club place this season.

Setback for Villa with Petrov dislocating a shoulder during training.

I think Man City will do well and will probably get a top 4 finish.

Arsenal do have Eduardo and Rosicky back, though Nasri's loss for a few months is a big blow. Walcott really has to step up to the mark this year, as does Van persie and Bendtner. Personally, Wenger has more faith in Bendtner than I do, but would love to be proved wrong on that.

I still say we need a better keeper though...

If Liverpool keep Alonso and Torres, and can find consistency, then imho they will be in a 3 way with Chelski and the Scum for the title.

[S123arpedon]

The spurs performance was woeful at best against Celtic, they played us off the park. I can only attribute that to the fact that they are ahead in terms of their pre season schedule.

A decent performance by Spurs against West Ham though in the Asia Cup was good to see. 1-0 flattered the Hammers, it could easily have been 4 or 5 with better finishing. Its nice to see some youngsters getting a run out and O'Hara is playing well. Keep an eye on Bostock and Livermore as players who might just make an impact when the season gets underway.

The Man City story is interesting. As mentioned earlier it all depends on how Hughes can get them working as a team. He has a huge squad and some of them are not going to be the easiest to handle if they are not playing week in week out, Bellamy, Robinho, Elano and even Adebayor and Tevev to a certain extent. If he gets the team working well then I they could well grab a top 4 place.

Wenger will be happy to have Rosicky and Eduardo back. It must be like 2 new signings with them being out so long. Bendtner seems hit and miss. Can score some good goals but personally I don't think he is quite good enough for a top premiership side.

[English_Bob]

United...

I know Fergie's done some odd things this transfer window, but I have faith in him.

I like Marcheda and I think Rooney will up his game and partner Owen ( :roll: ) well.

Defense is still rock solid and we have one of the best goalies in the game.

Plus Alex has got a little warchest to play with and will be looking to buy soon enough.

It's not all about the players... it's also about the coaching and managing. And no-one does that like United. City have bought big, but I don't think they'll make the impact their big spending promises.

[Stramash]

United...

I know Fergie's done some odd things this transfer window, but I have faith in him.

I like Marcheda and I think Rooney will up his game and partner Owen ( :roll: ) well.

Defense is still rock solid and we have one of the best goalies in the game.

Plus Alex has got a little warchest to play with and will be looking to buy soon enough.

It's not all about the players... it's also about the coaching and managing. And no-one does that like United. City have bought big, but I don't think they'll make the impact their big spending promises.

Loathe as I am to agree with the non-hirsute one, but I would put Scum and Chelski as joint favourites.

I think Owen will bag over 20 goals this season, few of them pretty, and most of them from within the 6 yard box, but at the end of the day, a goal's a goal!!

[English_Bob]

Loathe as I am to agree with the non-hirsute one, but I would put Scum and Chelski as joint favourites.

I think Owen will bag over 20 goals this season, few of them pretty, and most of them from within the 6 yard box, but at the end of the day, a goal's a goal!!

20?! **** me!! Even I don't expect that... I think our strike force this season will come from Marcheda and Rooney.

I think Owen will be a good feeder - a la Ryan Giggs...

Lazy bastard Berbatov will score a few (if they ricochet in off his legs while he's having a *** in the six yard box, wondering why all those funny men are running around).

I'm also hoping little Anderson can show some off his earlier promise instead of a flash of skill once every four games.

And I'd love to see Park keep the ball.... just once... just for a few seconds... that would be lovely.

[Stramash]

Loathe as I am to agree with the non-hirsute one, but I would put Scum and Chelski as joint favourites.

I think Owen will bag over 20 goals this season, few of them pretty, and most of them from within the 6 yard box, but at the end of the day, a goal's a goal!!

20?! f*ck me!! Even I don't expect that... I think our strike force this season will come from Marcheda and Rooney.

I think Owen will be a good feeder - a la Ryan Giggs...

Lazy bastard Berbatov will score a few (if they ricochet in off his legs while he's having a f*g in the six yard box, wondering why all those funny men are running around).

I'm also hoping little Anderson can show some off his earlier promise instead of a flash of skill once every four games.

And I'd love to see Park keep the ball.... just once... just for a few seconds... that would be lovely.

think he will surprise you Dave. Can see him scoring quite a few 'poacher's' goals. Owen and Rooney will be your leading scorers this season, just hoping it's a few less than others!!

[CiaranM]

Loathe as I am to agree with the non-hirsute one, but I would put Scum and Chelski as joint favourites.

I think Owen will bag over 20 goals this season, few of them pretty, and most of them from within the 6 yard box, but at the end of the day, a goal's a goal!!

20?! f*ck me!! Even I don't expect that... I think our strike force this season will come from Marcheda and Rooney.

I think Owen will be a good feeder - a la Ryan Giggs...

Lazy bastard Berbatov will score a few (if they ricochet in off his legs while he's having a f*g in the six yard box, wondering why all those funny men are running around).

I'm also hoping little Anderson can show some off his earlier promise instead of a flash of skill once every four games.

And I'd love to see Park keep the ball.... just once... just for a few seconds... that would be lovely.

think he will surprise you Dave. Can see him scoring quite a few 'poacher's' goals. Owen and Rooney will be your leading scorers this season, just hoping it's a few less than others!!

Owne might score 20 goals if u count the carling cup and fa cup, but when was the last time he scored 20 league goals in a season ?? also i'm pretty sure berbatov and rooney will be the 1st choice pairing with owen keeping the physio busy !!!!!!

[CiaranM]

truce!!!!

I know, and both the Lazard and Rothchild reports show, that we do have debt (though not as much as some).

But let's at least spend that 40 mill!!

i think i'm gona cry .... FFS spend the f**king money Arsene !!!

Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger says he will not rush to spend the money raised from the sales of Kolo Toure and Emmanuel Adebayor to Manchester City.

Wenger has generated in the region of £40m from the transfers but has made only one summer signing so far, Thomas Vermaelen from Ajax for £10m.

"I feel we are strong enough but if we can add then we will do it," Wenger told the club's official website.

"In England, people think all problems can be sorted out by buying players."

Arsenal have been linked with a host of players this summer but Wenger says the club are not "close to signing anyone at the moment".

Defenders Brede Hangeland of Fulham and Newcastle's Sebastien Bassong as well as strikers Klaas-Jan Huntelaar of Real Madrid, Bordeaux's Marouane Chamakh, have been linked with moves to the Emirates Stadium.

Former skipper Patrick Vieira, 33, is also rumoured to be on Wenger's radar after falling out of favour at Inter Milan.

"We have money available so for us it is now (important) to spend it in the right way when we do it or if we do it," added Wenger after Arsenal's 1-0 friendly win over German side Hannover on Wednesday.

"The biggest target is to work hard in training, improve what we can improve and have confidence in the players that we have."

FFS .... if we finished 4th last year miles behind ManU, how the f**k r we gonna be strong enough this year after selling adebayor, toure and losing nasri through injury .... is that f**king money available or not ??

full article ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/8176792.stm

[lizardo]

Least surprising headline of the deay!!

Arsenal's Tomas Rosicky Suffers Further Injury Setback

The Gunner's Czech international suffers another setback...

30 Jul 2009 13:10:27

Arsenal midfielder Tomas Rosicky has suffered another blow on the long road back from injury.

The Czech Republic international made his latest comeback after 18 months on the sidelines, playing 45 minutes of a recent friendly against Barnet.

The club have confirmed that Rosicky sustained a "minor setback" in the friendly, but the player himself remains upbeat.